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Re: AGC to keep audio energy to some target level
can be think about lufs not as standard but as a method? and twist under the standard of Pakistan?
- Logado
- Posts: 62
- Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:42 pm
Re: AGC to keep audio energy to some target level
I guess the clue is in the name...
Early in life most everyone learns that you are not right just because you are the loudest. Some don't. Thread successfully derailed. Congrats.
"Patents noise floor or measuring noise is used in japan as C Weighting, but FBI, USA monitors sound which was changed to A-WEIGHTING SCALE via Referenced Frequency"
The ABCD weighting scales express the difference between the power of a signal and its perceived loudness by a human ear. All curves have certain requirements that are mostly ignored by those who use them. As such, I am very happy that the FBI uses such a scale to convert recordings, because of this:
"A-weighting is only really valid for relatively quiet sounds and for pure tones as it is based on the 40-phon Fletcher–Munson curves which represented an early determination of the equal-loudness contour for human hearing.
Because of perceived discrepancies between early and more recent determinations, the International Organization for Standardization (ISO) recently revised its standard curves as defined in ISO 226, in response to the recommendations of a study coordinated by the Research Institute of Electrical Communication, Tohoku University, Japan. The study produced new curves by combining the results of several studies, by researchers in Japan, Germany, Denmark, UK, and USA. (Japan was the greatest contributor with about 40% of the data.) This has resulted in the recent acceptance of a new set of curves standardized as ISO 226:2003." Source
But all of this has nothing to do with AGC! Why? Because everything mentioned by MrKing is about the analog domain. But we are handling the digital domain. There is no such thing as dB(A) in the digital domain - there's only dBFS which is a fixed scale to express the limited range of 0-1 in the digital domain with a better fitting logarithmic scale. 0 dBFS = digital 1.
An automatic gain control just sets the gain somewhere between 0-1 according to a reference value in the same range. The principle is always the same: Measure the peak or rms and change the output in relation to the reference value. How this is implemented depends on the type of application to use it for. Just like PHI pointed out, for an AGC between songs a whole song would be measured for peak/rms. For a limiting or even compressing kind of AGC, smaller windows would be measured. The shorter, the more influence on the structure of the overall output signal.
Early in life most everyone learns that you are not right just because you are the loudest. Some don't. Thread successfully derailed. Congrats.
"Patents noise floor or measuring noise is used in japan as C Weighting, but FBI, USA monitors sound which was changed to A-WEIGHTING SCALE via Referenced Frequency"
The ABCD weighting scales express the difference between the power of a signal and its perceived loudness by a human ear. All curves have certain requirements that are mostly ignored by those who use them. As such, I am very happy that the FBI uses such a scale to convert recordings, because of this:
"A-weighting is only really valid for relatively quiet sounds and for pure tones as it is based on the 40-phon Fletcher–Munson curves which represented an early determination of the equal-loudness contour for human hearing.
Because of perceived discrepancies between early and more recent determinations, the International Organization for Standardization (ISO) recently revised its standard curves as defined in ISO 226, in response to the recommendations of a study coordinated by the Research Institute of Electrical Communication, Tohoku University, Japan. The study produced new curves by combining the results of several studies, by researchers in Japan, Germany, Denmark, UK, and USA. (Japan was the greatest contributor with about 40% of the data.) This has resulted in the recent acceptance of a new set of curves standardized as ISO 226:2003." Source
But all of this has nothing to do with AGC! Why? Because everything mentioned by MrKing is about the analog domain. But we are handling the digital domain. There is no such thing as dB(A) in the digital domain - there's only dBFS which is a fixed scale to express the limited range of 0-1 in the digital domain with a better fitting logarithmic scale. 0 dBFS = digital 1.
An automatic gain control just sets the gain somewhere between 0-1 according to a reference value in the same range. The principle is always the same: Measure the peak or rms and change the output in relation to the reference value. How this is implemented depends on the type of application to use it for. Just like PHI pointed out, for an AGC between songs a whole song would be measured for peak/rms. For a limiting or even compressing kind of AGC, smaller windows would be measured. The shorter, the more influence on the structure of the overall output signal.
"There lies the dog buried" (German saying translated literally)
- tulamide
- Posts: 2714
- Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:48 pm
- Location: Germany
Re: AGC to keep audio energy to some target level
fab thread!
@MYCO! keep calm, deep breaths and don't let the Loonies and the deranged get to ya m8!
As for this chaps plugins being more famous than waves in Pakistan i could well believe it! being a completely backwards country filled with people most of whom "don't even have a pot to piss in" (as we say in the UK) and over 60% not able to even feed themselves properly, i would say that plugins or any software that is expensive to us civilized westerners, would be a sultans ransom to them, thus meaning any old cheap or free crap is likely to be more well known and used by them but not of course because it is better! famous is not even a word i would use for a bit of software anyway
btw I have a sister living in Lahore, was just over there 4 months ago! what a hellhole that country is! the people are nice enough but outside the city they are still in the stone age!
anyways im also looking forward to these supreme schematics being put forward by MrKing
@MYCO! keep calm, deep breaths and don't let the Loonies and the deranged get to ya m8!
As for this chaps plugins being more famous than waves in Pakistan i could well believe it! being a completely backwards country filled with people most of whom "don't even have a pot to piss in" (as we say in the UK) and over 60% not able to even feed themselves properly, i would say that plugins or any software that is expensive to us civilized westerners, would be a sultans ransom to them, thus meaning any old cheap or free crap is likely to be more well known and used by them but not of course because it is better! famous is not even a word i would use for a bit of software anyway
btw I have a sister living in Lahore, was just over there 4 months ago! what a hellhole that country is! the people are nice enough but outside the city they are still in the stone age!
anyways im also looking forward to these supreme schematics being put forward by MrKing
- Jay
- Posts: 276
- Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:42 pm
Re: AGC to keep audio energy to some target level
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...back what is important.
All what I can said is the Myco ACG example is the best I test from all examples I already try in flowstone.
I messing a lot with the example, cant correct the distortion problem.
Myco please apologize for insist, there is a way to fix that and simplify this example more so just handle all with one single slider.
Similar to that webpage tool?
I hope you can and can share the result here, again I repeat, this example is really god.
About the troll, damn, I not are expert, but that guy is really wrong.
Regards!!
All what I can said is the Myco ACG example is the best I test from all examples I already try in flowstone.
I messing a lot with the example, cant correct the distortion problem.
Myco please apologize for insist, there is a way to fix that and simplify this example more so just handle all with one single slider.
Similar to that webpage tool?
I hope you can and can share the result here, again I repeat, this example is really god.
About the troll, damn, I not are expert, but that guy is really wrong.
Regards!!
-
ElCuco - Posts: 23
- Joined: Sat May 16, 2015 3:10 am
Re: AGC to keep audio energy to some target level
To get rid of the distortion set target level a bit lower, eg. -15dB to give some headroom for spikes. The more attack/release is turned to the right, the less distortion you get. When you've got a setting that works you can hardcode the values and get rid of the controls.
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MyCo - Posts: 718
- Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:33 pm
- Location: Germany
Re: AGC to keep audio energy to some target level
Thk for the TIP, I test that soon.
No way right now, I have a super FLU!! right now
No way right now, I have a super FLU!! right now
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ElCuco - Posts: 23
- Joined: Sat May 16, 2015 3:10 am
Re: AGC to keep audio energy to some target level
Myco why if I connect the db stock vumeter provided with FS not work??
I connected the db meter to the out of acg and not work.
Can explain why that happen?
How solve?
Please apologize my ignorance.
I connected the db meter to the out of acg and not work.
Can explain why that happen?
How solve?
Please apologize my ignorance.
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ElCuco - Posts: 23
- Joined: Sat May 16, 2015 3:10 am
Re: AGC to keep audio energy to some target level
Sorry for insist but why stock db vumeters provided in flowstone not work at the audio output?
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ElCuco - Posts: 23
- Joined: Sat May 16, 2015 3:10 am
Re: AGC to keep audio energy to some target level
If it's the one with a ruby Ballistics module in it...
I had problems with this one.
dunno if it's the 'check for no infinity or NaN' ...
maybe one of the guru's here can help?!
I had problems with this one.
dunno if it's the 'check for no infinity or NaN' ...
maybe one of the guru's here can help?!
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Walter Sommerfeld - Posts: 249
- Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:00 pm
- Location: HH - Made in Germany
Re: AGC to keep audio energy to some target level
ElCuco wrote:Sorry for insist but why stock db vumeters provided in flowstone not work at the audio output?
Because they expect the input to be in dB... that's a bit stupid...
Try this...
- Attachments
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- dB-Meter (+MyCo).fsm
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MyCo - Posts: 718
- Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:33 pm
- Location: Germany
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