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Will stream 2 midi ever be possible?

For general discussion related FlowStone

Will stream 2 midi ever be possible?

Postby guyman » Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:38 pm

Without sampling / converting to float?

What is keeping us from having a prim that can take mono/poly/stream data and converting it to MIDI directly/ reliably/real time?

I've seen ruby implementations, but the cpu & latency it takes to create a frame of a mono, and feed it to ruby seems silly. Isn't this sort of stream clock the backbone of all daws?

The ruby clock doesn't function the same across all rates, so a ruby clock isn't the same as a stream clock.....
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Re: Will stream 2 midi ever be possible?

Postby tulamide » Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:53 pm

Correct, a Ruby clock isn't the same as a stream clock. But you don't need a Ruby clock.

Ruby is snyc'd to sample rate, when either you're working with ASIO out in your schematic, or use your plugin in a DAW. This is possible, because in reality something called double-buffering is going on behind the scenes in Flowstone. We are working on a buffer, while another buffer is sent to and processed by the DAC.

We just don't get to see it, because it is much cooler to actually work "sample-based". But you shouldn't forget about the real mechanic in the background. Because of the buffer, you can work sample-precise with Ruby as well (this is also explained somewhere in the user guide). Of course, the time Ruby needs to achieve something, needs to be shorter than the time a buffer needs. The time of a buffer can be calculated from its size. For example, a 256 samples buffer at 44.1 kHz covers approx. 6 ms. That should be enough for Ruby to create a MIDI event and send it.

For larger tasks however, Ruby will fail with a too small buffer. Look at your ASIO buffer and try to find a setting that covers, whatever you ask Ruby to do.
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Re: Will stream 2 midi ever be possible?

Postby guyman » Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:21 pm

If that's the case (if i even understand you correctly :lol: ) why isn't there a fool proof step sequencer in ruby? why don't I see ruby oscillators? can I generate realtime index clocks in ruby? sync systems to ppq in ruby? adsr?

I guess to get the functionalities I have imagined in my head, I expect to create 2 ticks/clocks at any fraction of sample rate, one in ruby, one in stream/dspcode, and trigger them simultaneously, they should run in complete sync without question?

How do I do that?
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Re: Will stream 2 midi ever be possible?

Postby guyman » Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:25 pm

I don't know if I'm communicating effectively.

I want to generate midi events reliably, like in the fl studio step sequencer, using data obtained from streams... or ditch streams for "ruby streams"???

Thank you for your responses.
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Re: Will stream 2 midi ever be possible?

Postby tulamide » Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:28 pm

Yep, that's what I understood as well.

As I said, the crucial part is the time you have to get Ruby do things. And that isn't much time. That's why you can't see full blown sequencers.
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Re: Will stream 2 midi ever be possible?

Postby guyman » Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:32 pm

Well to hell with ruby ! :twisted:
Will flowstone ever translate stream into midi signals?
Am I lost in a sea of ignorance?
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Re: Will stream 2 midi ever be possible?

Postby MichaelBenjamin » Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:57 pm

there isn't a fool proof sequencer in realtime, bcs ruby is a scripting language with garbage collection, which is not intended for realtime use, where you need to fill the buffer of a soundcard in x millisecs guaranteed.

you can however write a foolproof offline ruby sequencer, which for example writes down a sequenced pattern of sounds to a wav file, or write a midi file with notes in it for example.

when synthmaker runs, it produces audio in realtime, which means all green, midi and ruby stuff needs to be somehow synced to this for it to influence the actual samplerate stream stuff.

if you want per sample accuracy, you have to do it all in codebox/stream/mono.
if you are fine whether the command arrives +-50ms (all GUI basically) then you can feed the green/ruby to stream.
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Re: Will stream 2 midi ever be possible?

Postby MichaelBenjamin » Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:59 pm

also if you want to output midi with SM, you could try to do without stream/mono, and just use green or ruby to generate midi with a bit of jitter.

also might look up the actual max sampling rate of most(all?) midi interfaces, to see what is technically possible with the midi spec.

if you want to use the midi to control something external by SM stream, you could also try to put the data into an audio out stream with some pw modulation, and use an arduino with a midi shield to retrieve it and accurately translate to realtime midi signals
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Re: Will stream 2 midi ever be possible?

Postby guyman » Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:10 pm

I want to run a custom clock that then runs a step sequencer... like a daw... any inaccuracy is unacceptable..

I'd love to run a stream into a prim, a set of scheduling commands/data sets... and get midi events on the other side... wholistic latency is acceptable, but things being off AT ALL would not...


a dream I suppose.
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Re: Will stream 2 midi ever be possible?

Postby MichaelBenjamin » Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:14 pm

you can write a step sequencer in sm codebox, aslong as you generate all sounds also in sm, it will work sample accurate, but if you want to control external non sm equipment with this by direct midi output, i have no idea how to do it sample accurate without random jitter in sm, maybe there is a possibility with the newest versions to run ruby in quasi realtime mode along the samplerate clock, but i doubt it.
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