Where is wave data stored?

[deraudrl]

I'm probably picking way-too-complicated schematics to look at this early in the game, but so it goes...

I'm looking at Spogg's Quilcom Q-50. There's a whole pile of presets, most of which use sample data loaded(?) through a module called "Wave Player 1", which, if I drill down deep enough, ends up at a primitive called "Wave Array". So far so good...except that the files that are presumably getting loaded don't exist at all on my machine, certainly not at the locations that show up as the pathnames in the presets. So...where are the samples coming from? And, if it's from somewhere embedded in the module file itself, how did they get there?

(I'm keeping a pair of oven mitts handy so I don't get a concussion from slapping my forehead while I'm reading the responses to this...)

[Spogg]

A perfectly valid question. Actually all questions are valid, some answers may not be.

When you load wav files into a wav array they become part of the schematic. You don’t get to see this but you may have noticed that the schematic and VSTi are much larger than for a typical regular synth that doesn’t rely on samples.

They become associated with the Wav array prim, “inside it” if you like. This means that if you load wavs you can save, copy and re-use the actual prim and it will still carry the associated wav files.

When you save the schematic, any and all wav files are saved with it, and when you export to a VSTi they are still there, baked in. This means you don’t need to have the wav files separately, which is nice.

Alternatively, you can use the wav array prim to load a set of wavs in a VSTi and a synth can access these. But, importantly, they are not stored in the plugin because you can’t write to a dll file. In this case you need a preset system that stores the path to the folder/files and re-loads them when a preset is selected or when the DAW’s song file is re-loaded.

So, to sum up, the first method allows you to make a “rompler” with a pre-defined set of wavs (Q-50) and the second method would be thought of as a “sampler” since the user can change the wavs available.

I hope that helps.

Cheers

Spogg

[deraudrl]

[quote="Spogg"]A perfectly valid question. Actually all questions are valid...[\quote]Let's see how you feel about that after I've been here awhile.
[quote="Spogg"]When you load wav files into a wav array they become part of the schematic. You don’t get to see this but you may have noticed that the schematic and VSTi are much larger than for a typical regular synth that doesn’t rely on samples.

They become associated with the Wav array prim, “inside it” if you like. This means that if you load wavs you can save, copy and re-use the actual prim and it will still carry the associated wav files.[\quote]Got it. I think my main disconnect was that I read "Wave array" as "array of sound samples", not "array of wave files": I got fooled by the presence of a pathname (singular) as an input and preset parameter.
[quote="Spogg"]Alternatively, you can use the wav array prim to load a set of wavs in a VSTi and a synth can access these. But, importantly, they are not stored in the plugin because you can’t write to a dll file. In this case you need a preset system that stores the path to the folder/files and re-loads them when a preset is selected or when the DAW’s song file is re-loaded.

So, to sum up, the first method allows you to make a “rompler” with a pre-defined set of wavs (Q-50) and the second method would be thought of as a “sampler” since the user can change the wavs available.

I hope that helps.[\quote]Yup yup, thanks. I'll take another deep dive into that section after the coffee kicks in and the dog gets his walk.

(Secondary administrative question: between the time difference and the need for moderator approval, the bandwidth on these conversations feels like a bad Usenet feed. Can't do anything about time zones, but does the moderator approval thing go away after a certain number of posts?)

[Spogg]

(Secondary administrative question: between the time difference and the need for moderator approval, the bandwidth on these conversations feels like a bad Usenet feed. Can't do anything about time zones, but does the moderator approval thing go away after a certain number of posts?)

Yes, it’s supposed to be after 3 approvals but the board software version is old and a bit infirm. Sometimes it takes longer and sometimes a new poster doesn’t get referred to moderation at all.

I know it’s frustrating but in my experience it will clear.

Another point is that you need to create your quotes online in the forum post itself. If you do it offline then paste into the forum it doesn’t work. I have no idea why.

Cheers

Spogg

[deraudrl]

Another point is that you need to create your quotes online in the forum post itself. If you do it offline then paste into the forum it doesn’t work. I have no idea why.

Naw, that was my fault: I forgot to put the end-quote tag after my first response, buggered up everything that followed. Or, as the devil on my left shoulder put it, "Aw, don't bother previewing this post, it'll be fine!"

[trogluddite]

What Spogg has described is an example of a more general principle. FS files, toolbox modules, and clipboard data always include a "snapshot" of the state of most triggered (green), GUI (yellow), and Ruby primitives. Working with bitmaps is exactly the same as for wave samples, for example; but the principle applies even to very basic primitives.

For example; if you load the example below, you will find that, despite the absence of any editable value-setting components, the 'String Array' still contains the strings that I filled it with, and the float 'Sample and Hold' contains the last value that I sampled before saving.

primitive_snapshot.fsm

(386 Bytes) Downloaded 769 times

This is generally very useful and intuitive, but the tools are there to explicitly initialise things if you need to (e.g. the 'After Load' and 'After Duplicate' primitives.)

Re: the forum admin question...
If you have any problems, you can send a PM to either myself or Spogg (moderators) - we get e-mail notifications for those, which would be impractical for every new post given how much spam we get. Sadly, neither of us is an administrator, though, so our powers are rather limited (the admins from DSPr have long been AWOL!)

Let's see how you feel about that after I've been here awhile

Challenge accepted!

[deraudrl]

What Spogg has described is an example of a more general principle. FS files, toolbox modules, and clipboard data always include a "snapshot" of the state of most triggered (green), GUI (yellow), and Ruby primitives. Working with bitmaps is exactly the same as for wave samples, for example; but the principle applies even to very basic primitives.

For example; if you load the example below, you will find that, despite the absence of any editable value-setting components, the 'String Array' still contains the strings that I filled it with, and the float 'Sample and Hold' contains the last value that I sampled before saving.

primitive_snapshot.fsm

This is generally very useful and intuitive, but the tools are there to explicitly initialise things if you need to (e.g. the 'After Load' and 'After Duplicate' primitives.)

Thanks, that clears up a lot of things I've seen in downloaded schematics...I'm more accustomed to thinking of "components" as "stateless black boxes" rather than "pre-instantiated objects", if you get my drift.

If you have any problems, you can send a PM to either myself or Spogg (moderators)...

I suspected as much, but wasn't sure. Most forum SW lists the moderators down with the online member/guest count, but I guess that switch didn't get set.

[trogluddite]

if you get my drift

I certainly do. Viewing the triggered components of FS as "stateful objects which send messages to each other" (i.e. analogous to object-oriented code) is very productive, IMHO.

[deraudrl]

When you save the schematic, any and all wav files are saved with it, and when you export to a VSTi they are still there, baked in. This means you don’t need to have the wav files separately, which is nice.

Is that also true when a module is saved to the toolbox?
(I'm not sure if that would be a bug or a feature: it sounds a bit...dangerous.)

[Spogg]

Yes if you save into the toolbox the "contents" go with it. This allows for example to save bitmap knobs with the bitmaps still loaded.

Cheers

Spogg