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The Quilcom SIM-CARNYX: Intimidate your enemies!

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Re: The Quilcom SIM-CARNYX: Intimidate your enemies!

Postby deraudrl » Sun Jul 04, 2021 6:17 pm

Spogg wrote:Another consideration is the use of bagpipes. We know these have been used in a similar way, to intimidate the enemy in battles, but to this day they are also heard in ceremonies and celebrations.
I was always under the impression that they weren't used to intimidate the enemy, but rather to get your own side's blood up going into battle. Ceremonial usage then serves to remind the troops of the people they've lost to said enemy. (Note that today, at least in the US, you mostly see them at military and police funerals.)
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Re: The Quilcom SIM-CARNYX: Intimidate your enemies!

Postby tulamide » Sun Jul 04, 2021 10:13 pm

Spogg wrote:on one he seems convinced the instrument would have been used in ceremonies and celebrations, and maybe religious contexts, as well as warfare.

As much as I love romantic dreaming, it must be clear that the Carnyx was not a musical instrument! It is possible that it was used on other occasions than warfare, but never in terms of music. Just in terms of signals.
You had the bad luck to only base your opinion on videos by John Kenny. I say bad luck, because he is a highly trained fulltime musician (who btw makes a lot of money by selling his carnyx music), not a historian. And especially not a soldier in war, having to blow into that thing while protecting against arrows.

1. The only proven facts are, that the carnyx was used during battles to make frightening noises. And that the carnyx was used during an initiation rite, where warriors became knights. You can see this on the cauldron of Gundestrup.

2. Kenny uses a modern mouthpiece (which is movable). Such a thing doesn't exist for the carnyx. At least not for all of the found ones and those on the cauldron.

3. Kenny uses a technique known as Clarinspiel/Clarino (I couldn't find a translation for it), whereby because of the complexity of some composer's pieces the musicians had to train hard and long to produce notes that the natural horns in the renaissance couldn't produce directly, by shifting their resonant cavity in the body and using complex lip movements. This technique was invented in the early 16th century. Not 100 b.c.

4. Without a movable mouthpiece, a Carnyx isn't tunable. Several Carnyx players (like during the initiation rite) were never in tune.

I also saw the video from 2016, where he describes a use outside of a war horn. He never speaks of music, but of voices that could be potentially impressive even on occasions where a battle is not involved.
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Re: The Quilcom SIM-CARNYX: Intimidate your enemies!

Postby Spogg » Mon Jul 05, 2021 7:36 am

Some great and interesting points here guys!

As you might expect, I spent about 99% of my time on the audio aspects and just picked up my other opinions along the way. And yes, John Kenny was my main source simply because he produced almost all the sounds available, which was my principle focus rather than the history.

The discussion here has certainly added to my insight, so thank you!
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