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Quilcom SIM-GONG: Bang it!

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Quilcom SIM-GONG: Bang it!

Postby Spogg » Wed May 11, 2022 10:23 am

Gongs are tricky blighters to simulate!

I tried lots of different approaches and of course chose the best, which involved handling the chaotic build up and the more tonal modes in separate synthesis engines. It’s far from great but it can make some interesting somewhat gong-like sounds. You can download the zip which contains all the usual stuff here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zreto9nq47mxz ... 6.zip?dl=0

And here’s my video:

https://youtu.be/UfyVCqwlcjg

Now you can crash out!
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Re: Quilcom SIM-GONG: Bang it!

Postby billv » Wed May 11, 2022 2:33 pm

Spogg wrote:It’s far from great

Don't feel bad Spogg...there's some great sounds in there..thanks for sharing.. :D
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Re: Quilcom SIM-GONG: Bang it!

Postby martinvicanek » Sun May 15, 2022 8:54 am

I agree with billv. And the non-chaotic gong sims are very convincing, too!
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Re: Quilcom SIM-GONG: Bang it!

Postby Spogg » Sun May 15, 2022 10:48 am

Thanks guys. :D

The chaotic stuff was the big challenge of course and, at this point, it was the best I could come up with after spending a lot of time on it. I know I’ve reached my limit when whatever I change only makes it worse. :lol:

If anyone comes up with a better approach I’d love to know...
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Re: Quilcom SIM-GONG: Bang it!

Postby martinvicanek » Sun May 15, 2022 2:59 pm

Not necessarily a better approach, but perhaps an alternative. Some time ago I tried to create a crash cymbal-like sound, which is in some sense similar to the chaos modes of a gong. My approach is based on hundreds of resonances excited by a shaped noise burst. The credibility of the result depends on the details of the distribution of the resonant frequencies and, of course, on the timing and shape of excitation. If you play around long enough, you may find something you like. Or maybe not, who knows. :lol:
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cymbal7crash.fsm
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Re: Quilcom SIM-GONG: Bang it!

Postby Spogg » Tue May 17, 2022 8:20 am

Hey thanks Martin! :D
I’ve still yet to properly take on board that you made a system with 256 actual bandpass filters and it barely registers on the CPU too. Your talent is at level Crazy! :shock:

I spent several hours yesterday with this remarkable system. Before I even started on the gong sim I ruled out regular resonant filters because it would need so many and each with a narrow bandwidth. I decided that resonant comb filters would be better because of the many repeated peaks, so you get many peaks for each filter’s CPU cost.

In its original form your crash sound is remarkably convincing to my ears and I’ve managed to manipulate the schematic to get a gong-like crescendo. The sound is different to the comb filter system, as one would expect, and I think may be worthy of offering it as an alternative to the comb filters at some point for a new version, once I’ve got it working properly.

Of course the issue of dividing the simulation into 2 distinct synthesisers still remains, namely matching the two sounds to give the impression of a continuous swell and bloom of the chaotic modes derived from the more pitched modes. That’s something that eluded me so far, and it’s something that I feel in my bones could be resolved somehow. But how? :?:

I take comfort in the fact that the SIM-GONG has at least garnered some favourable comments on Facebook and YouTube, but I suspect that’s because of the range and variety of sounds you can make, rather than the authenticity of the Chau gong sound.

When I’ve made more progress I’ll post it here…
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Re: Quilcom SIM-GONG: Bang it!

Postby Spogg » Wed May 18, 2022 12:43 pm

Guys… I promised I’d share this when I got it working.

I’ve made major additions and changes to Martin’s original brilliant crash cymbal simulator to move towards a more gong-like sound.
One important difference to the SIM-GONG is I’ve re-used the first 32 filters to create an initial strike sound, the idea being to attempt to make the sound more continuous so the modes from the strike match the modes from the filter bank at the low end.
It’s very much an experimental prototype so have a play with it and see what you think and feel free to mess with it as you wish. At this point I don’t know if I’ll develop it further...
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cymbal7crash spogg 12 .fsm
3.06. Experimental prototype only.
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Re: Quilcom SIM-GONG: Bang it!

Postby martinvicanek » Wed May 18, 2022 7:11 pm

Spogg wrote:I’ve re-used the first 32 filters to create an initial strike sound, the idea being to attempt to make the sound more continuous so the modes from the strike match the modes from the filter bank at the low end.

That's smart! And I love the result! Close your eyes and imagine Carl Palmer banging it!
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Re: Quilcom SIM-GONG: Bang it!

Postby Spogg » Thu May 19, 2022 8:03 am

martinvicanek wrote:... I love the result! ...


Thanks Martin :D

Coming back to it this morning with fresh ears I now feel inclined to develop this into a SIM-CHAU; a synth with a much more specific target than the SIM-GONG but still with a wide range of sound variation. I think your remarkable filter system offers a more authentic rendition than the comb filter bank and it’s sufficiently different to justify a separate instrument.

Thank you so much for sharing the original which I reckon you could release as a cymbal simulator in its own right.

BTW my favourite use of a gong is that huge Paiste one that Pink Floyd used on Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun. I’d love to own one but it seems the cost rises exponentially with the diameter! :lol:
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Re: Quilcom SIM-GONG: Bang it!

Postby tester » Sun May 22, 2022 9:38 am

While waiting for great implementation of chau gong plus, here are few notes on current experimentation.

This one sound great for a starting point to Wind gongs. Now - my contact with Wind gongs has following to say.

One of oddities of continuously played wind gong, is the behavior of this sandy, metallic texture. This is something, that makes it different from ordinary metal plate.

When you hit an ordinary metal plate, there is only a simple evolution towards louder expression.

When you hit the gong, there is some sort of wandering wide filter inside that noise, but this filter behavior reminds me, I'm not sure how to say. I'ts not continuous. It's like crumpled piece of paper. And this sort of jumpy irregularity, gives an impression of a surrealism, like coming out of a sleepy dream.

Of course another aspects is the tonality of noise, driven by phase and few spectral bands. The difference between wind gongs and chau gongs is, that in wind gongs- this tonality has more noisy component, while in chau gongs- it reminds more artifacts of mp3 compression.
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