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Just wanted to say how great this is!

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Just wanted to say how great this is!

Postby trogluddite » Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:22 pm

Has anyone else noticed this...

Over the last month or so, I've found myself logging onto the forum, expecting to see the usual two or three posts, and maybe a new thread every couple of days or so - sometimes even a couple of days with nothing new at all.

But not just recently - there's dozens of new posts every day, two or three new threads, and some really cool stuff getting shared around. And not so much "Ah, the scenery has changed, why doesn't it work like it used to?", either.
And just as Spring is arriving for many of us - traditionally a time when it all goes a bit quiet.

The FS forum is finding it's feet, and for the first time since the SM->FS migration, it feels like it really has some life and vigour to it!

The furniture is in, the favourite pictures are up on the walls, and it's finally starting to feel like "home" to a dedicated cohort of the old SM crowd, and some friendly and generous new faces too!
Really feels now like we gained much more than we lost with the end of SM, and that makes me really happy about the way things have turned out. :D

( I may just have to start posting my regular drunken Friday night fairy stories again! :shock: :roll: )
All schematics/modules I post are free for all to use - but a credit is always polite!
Don't stagnate, mutate to create!
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Re: Just wanted to say how great this is!

Postby Yuroun » Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:03 pm

I have the same feeling.This forum is getting better. And with your stories it's even better :D
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Re: Just wanted to say how great this is!

Postby VPDannyMan » Sun May 05, 2013 5:28 am

trogluddite wrote:Really feels now like we gained much more than we lost with the end of SM, and that makes me really happy about the way things have turned out. :D

I have not been able to release a single thing with FS, nothing... With all due respect Trog, you know I have a lot of respect for you, but, lets not start singing and dancing until the band has arrived and there is some music to sing and dance to... We need the Ruby issue solved or Ruby removed at the very least. Then this will be useable, until then, you know as well as I do what's to be expected...

So, it is not as useable as SM was because the very components that make it better than SM also make it unusable to release anything. If Ruby functioned correct, then yes, FS would kill SM, but right now I am only using SM..

As far as the forum goes, yes it looks a little busier..
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Re: Just wanted to say how great this is!

Postby nix » Sun May 05, 2013 6:21 am

I see ur point.
But-
Compared to MAX/msp and Usine, the exports are very light.
They each have at least 50 support files required for a compiled proggy.
Ruby is now bug-free on my system.

So just as a counterpoint, IMO Ruby is a god send,
because all prior limitations,
excepting Mac and 64-bit OS-
have been lifted.

Hopefully RDSP can wrap the mscvrRuby though,
but I don't see it as a showstopper.

In which instance does the Ruby install make an .exe or VST unusable?
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Re: Just wanted to say how great this is!

Postby VPDannyMan » Sun May 05, 2013 5:31 pm

nix wrote:In which instance does the Ruby install make an .exe or VST unusable?

When people run it and complain that you are running a hidden install, or if you tell them up front that ruby will be copied every time you run your application. They complain about that too... Its better if it was just linked statically...Or at the very least, before its copied, determine if the user is even using ruby, if not then don't copy it. Right now it assumes every user is using it and copies no matter what. In this case you cannot even use previous SM code any more, unless its ok for you that it copies the ruby.

To some people, this is acceptable and they have no problem using it (Students, Single customer use builds, etc). For me however, it is not.

Lets get something straight though because I fear I may be misunderstood..
I am not against Ruby, it is a great and helpful addition, and it certainly adds to the flexibility. I only have a problem with the way it was implemented.. However, now we are on the topic I do have a question about it. Ruby is a Garbage collected language, I know there was some talk about that before. Has anyone ever had their program or plug lockup while Ruby does its garbage collection? Could that actually be the cause of some of these weird unanswered crashes we see? It might also be a good thing to get to the bottom of as well...No?

I just don't see any reason why you can't just require the user to install Ruby and run from that instead of all this other copying stuff? It makes it appear to the user as if you're program has malware intentions. Every other program in the world that uses Ruby in this way requires that. If your plug does not use Ruby then don't require it, if it does and Ruby is not installed, then alert the user and install it... Simple.. There was a shared namespace issue mentioned somewhere here too, (I could be wrong), but would this not fix that issue as well? The issue had something to do with two separate plugs using the same variable names. Ruby did not distinguish between instances of them and therefore each plug would change the values of the variables. Can someone confirm that?

So if you have two different plugs, both using the same variable names, will one corrupt the other?
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Re: Just wanted to say how great this is!

Postby pall » Tue May 14, 2013 4:21 pm

trogluddite wrote:The furniture is in, the favourite pictures are up on the walls, and it's finally starting to feel like "home" to a dedicated cohort of the old SM crowd, and some friendly and generous new faces too!

:lol: :lol:
Yes, many beautiful and encouraging words, but the atmosphere in forum is a little lifeless. For a while, nothing appears interesting. and what is more unfortunate is the fact that there was not any dialogue between users and moderators (support), developers.
The latest version of FS in my opinion is not complete, satisfactory. Some of us struggle to get somewhat accurate counters, that would have to appear in the software. Green primitives that are related to time, such as tickers, timers, counters, sliders and maybe few more, would have had to occur in Ruby variant.
The most significant "improvement" from the SynthMaker, from what we understand, is Ruby.
But I'm not programmer. When I chose SynthMaker I said, there's a very good software for those who do not know programming. Because, as written in the firmament :
"SynthMaker is an audio programming tool that allows anyone to create their own sounds, virtual instruments and effects without having to write any code." And so should continue to be FlowStone.

As it is now is good and maybe very good, but only for the good programmers, for those who know Ruby. Yes, there are a few who know Ruby well enough (only a few), and several who are just trying to be rubyst.

But that is not enough. Sirs?
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Re: Just wanted to say how great this is!

Postby tester » Tue May 14, 2013 4:45 pm

I'm glad with stability and speed differences between SM and FS; right now I have no thoughts on switching from FS into something else (I'm not raw programmer; I'm that "anyone" from your quote - I just have ideas and thanks to FS - I am able to make them real). Everything else - is still within the range of my limited knowledge, maybe except for some primitives that have built in limits (like FFT converter at 16kpts or grah at 44100 samples max). What is missing - advanced graphic/video processing capabilities. What confuses me is the lack of common place for both - SM and FS, which means that I duplicate some of my posts here and there. I don't know who has SM only, and who is on FS too. What I'm afraid however, is that FS may end like SM, changing into something else very soon, with all nuances around we have encountered before. Just check these:

http://dsprobotics.blogspot.com/2013/01 ... otics.html
http://www.lynxmotion.com/p-821-free-do ... ntrol.aspx
Need to take a break? Looking for relaxing sounds? I have something right for you.
(by purchasing, you are also supporting further development of related projects).
Thank you for your contribution.
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Re: Just wanted to say how great this is!

Postby VPDannyMan » Wed May 15, 2013 12:19 am

I'm glad with stability and speed differences between SM and FS;

Have you not been reading the forum tester? What stability is it that you are talking about.. I'm seeing reports of weird crashes all over the place...
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Re: Just wanted to say how great this is!

Postby tester » Wed May 15, 2013 10:19 am

If you worked with Synthmaker before Flowstone, then you know what I'm talking about. Besides I refer to my projects, which are... extensive (guess only biliv has larger projects than me). I don't have weird crashes here. Occasional and predictable, in different situations than in SM (in SM it happened in crucial situations). Maybe it's because I learned how to work with FS in a more secure way? I don't know. Tell me VPDannyMan - why should I share bad emotions if I have no reason to? I stated my personal opinion, and as long it works fine - I stay with it.
Need to take a break? Looking for relaxing sounds? I have something right for you.
(by purchasing, you are also supporting further development of related projects).
Thank you for your contribution.
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Re: Just wanted to say how great this is!

Postby VPDannyMan » Wed May 15, 2013 5:40 pm

Did you really want me to list all the threads here? If its a personal opinion, you should state it as that not as a fact as you did... As in "IMO its stable", NOT "It is Stable"... Clearly, not everyone has had the same experience that you have had. Messages like that get to the devs and lull them in a sense of confidence in the product that does not exist.

Now in terms of the links you posted.. In my opinion, of course FS is going to be a Robotics package and in the not to distant future, the VST development portion of it will become almost non existent. I don't think there is much money in the VST development side of it for them? Whereas, on the robotics side of things, there is usually a company as a customer not some poor college student eating KD in a dorm room. So its feasible that they could make a years worth of SM sales in one FS customer. So, in the end, who can blame them? I don't.. I'd do the same damn thing, I think any of you would too...
So, if VST development is to be phased out, then before they drop it, please leave a version FS that will hold its own for at least a couple years. Add 64 bit, and fix the Ruby, after that FS can hold its own in future whether they continue with VST or not and all of us can continue to do what we do. We are extremely good now at finding work arounds for errors already, so I'm confident that we would not need much more after that release.

Posts like the above do not help, lets face it with eyes open and ask ONLY for what we need is all...

Just my 2 cents...
Last edited by VPDannyMan on Fri May 17, 2013 12:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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