faster products

[wlangfor@uoguelph.ca]

explanation of using a trigger blocker and limiter to make all things You make faster:

"Gotta Go"

new.png

[wlangfor@uoguelph.ca]

So by first routing Your signal (from anything) to a trigger blocker; And then routing the original signal to a redraw limiter and attaching the trigger to the same connection that the blocker is attached to seems to create a very smooth sound that is reminiscent of Waves audio plugins.

Pretty amazing I thought; And I guess I would use this trick on everything but the main knob You want colour from. Something that's not too oversampled with steel shine and some multicoloured hues to make the colour design full and smoothly rich.
You'd want to use this trick on anything but the one knob that defines Your sound IMO.

[tulamide]

The multiplication nonsense made me suspect it, but now I'm sure you're a troll.

That was a good laugh

[Spogg]

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" – Carl Sagan.

As a member and moderator I don’t like to see factually incorrect and misleading content in posts.

Does it matter? I would say that it does matter; because many people read this forum and a few might be misguided by what they read if the information is plain wrong or nonsense, as in this topic.

We cannot realistically argue with opinions but, when they are offered as facts, the information needs to be challenged and backed up with outside authoritative references.

Spogg

[wlangfor@uoguelph.ca]

The multiplication nonsense made me suspect it, but now I'm sure you're a troll.

That was a good laugh

At least I'm a multiplying Troll

And to this:

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" – Carl Sagan.

As a member and moderator I don’t like to see factually incorrect and misleading content in posts.

Does it matter? I would say that it does matter; because many people read this forum and a few might be misguided by what they read if the information is plain wrong or nonsense, as in this topic.

We cannot realistically argue with opinions but, when they are offered as facts, the information needs to be challenged and backed up with outside authoritative references.

Spogg

Well, Gentlemen, Ladies The panel of inquisition to which I present to you the following forensic data I have most recently obtained.
Through means of an instrument entitled a "print screen button" I have obtained the very details You surmised intangible .

I, The Accused await Your verdict

On to the deliberations Your Crown Hazaa! ,
The first and second item are screenshots from the Open Source "Freq RC 2015" made by Nix
The third is a screenshot from My own EQ, The "LA Stock EQ"

Item #1:

Freq RC 2015-1

genius - step 1.png (69.44 KiB) Viewed 17321 times

Item #2:

Freq RC 2015-2

genius - step 2.png (69.24 KiB) Viewed 17321 times

Item #3:

LA Stock EQ

genius - step 3.png (64.48 KiB) Viewed 17321 times

And now, on to how I made it sound like Waves audio: I added the Martin Vicanek De-zipper I found to all float values.
"I'll find a link"

But it was too smooth!

Try Out My EQ Here:
http://www.flowstone.co.uk/support/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13809

[Spogg]

I’m all for promoting techniques that reduce trigger avalanches. With the system you describe you have to be careful that nothing in green happens when a plugin is not in view in a DAW. One example would be using a modulation wheel, which operates in the green world.

My comments were aimed at your continuing to promote the notion that green arrangements can have an effect on audio quality. For example, a de-zipper will NOT and CANNOT influence the sound quality when a control value is static. During a change of value the slightly uneven steps created by the asynchronous green system will be smoothed out by a de-zipper, and this eliminates the so-called “zipper noise”. If the de-zipper rate is set too high you might notice a lag in value change, such that a knob may seem less responsive. The default of 40mS is a perfect sweet point, which is why it’s the Prim’s default value. But once the set value is reached there is NO further interaction with the audio stream.

In addition, the mathematical processes in the green control world also have no effect whatsoever on the audio quality, whether you multiply or divide or do complex calculations. The exception is if you have a very high CPU use where you could get audio stream interruptions. These dropouts are clearly heard and would never be confused with effects on tone colour or any other aspect of sound quality or integrity. Of course, I agree for a computer multiplication is cheaper than division, but there is NO effect on audio quality.

The situation with mathematical processes in DSP is the same. The WHOLE schematic/VST is evaluated once per sample period for streams, and any calculations in DSP have to be made and completed in that time period. The only thing that can affect audio quality is the result of those calculations, irrespective of how the sample value is calculated. Tulamide has already pointed out digital “rounding errors” which are capable of accumulating when many calculations are sequential, but are totally inaudible in practice due to the masking effect in our auditory system, and would be swamped out by other non-linearites in the signal path, like minor DAC monotonicity imperfections.

Cheers

Spogg

[adamszabo]

I dont think he knows that the trigger limiter does not function when the GUI is not in view. Lets say you link one of the EQ parameters to an automation. As soon as you close the plugin GUI it wont work. But at least it will sound like Waves I guess

[wlangfor@uoguelph.ca]

There's no science behind triggers though. It's just a bunch of programming. And knobs utilize the view bitmap object which applies funny things to sound as a whole. So, while people "say" no colour etc, I hear rubbery, smoother, tacky, plastic-y, rough like sandpaper. It's hard to avoid any "data" affecting sound; It just does.. And there's no "design" in it. Just the result of extra zero's here and there and maybe a 1 or two that doesn't make any sense in the calculations.
Like for instance vector knobs, they undoubtedly have a strange colour. They're more than just objects, they're data.

Or perhaps in the speed of the calculation, perhaps You would hear something a bit more slowly as a result. There's no science to that, just result.
And what about a 25hz limiter removing some of that additional data? I guess the sound that I note is like a rubbery dulling. However, it's that "prime" that makes it
possible to alter that colour slightly. Just like the "freq" by Phonics has a distinct colour. I think speed of how We hear the sound decides a lot in perception.
I've been mixing music everyday for 6 years. I'm not saying it's science; I'm saying some genius made this product and the only science was in the making of it.
I'm also saying My "tips" are about as high as quarters by this point dear Vulcan.

However, I'm really glad that I found this method of speeding up knobs and other things. Perhaps one of the better methods though of removing colour is in the combination of this method and a sample and hold. I think there's actually a glitch in C+, and I have no idea what it's called; Just extra data like in cache.
Keep in mind I make EQ's and colour; You use the default knobs and to be honest the sound is soso.

[adamszabo]

And knobs utilize the view bitmap object which applies funny things to sound as a whole

The view bitmap has nothing to do with sound. I think you are missing a very basic and important understanding of how things work. There are green calculations, and stream calculations (poly or mono which is white or blue). Green calculations are only done when they are changed and are calculated much more slowly. Stream calculations are real time and run at your set samplerate. When you connect a green input to a stream, and move it you will hear the "rough like sandpaper" sound because it does not being calculated the same rate as the stream. When you introduce a dezipper you interpolate between those slow values and smooth them out, and the "bad" sound is removed. Thats all there is to it there is no conspiracy going on.

[Spogg]

Subjective experience can never be argued with, even if there’s no logic or science behind its genesis.

If you hear a difference then nobody can tell you that you don’t, even if others cannot replicate or understand the sensation described.
If I hear angelic voices in the sky and you do not, and tell me it’s impossible, I may still hear the sweet singing.

The only way I could be convinced is by a properly controlled double-blind experiment, whereby you would need to state accurately whether a bitmap knob sounded different to a vector knob for example, without knowing which was which.
Otherwise we can’t rule out confirmation bias:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
I don’t think I can add more to the debate at this point, because we can’t do the experiment.

What I really do appreciate is that you aren’t launching personal attacks on those who disagree with you!

Cheers

Spogg