Some controls not working on VST in Reaper... SOLVED

[Spogg]

Hi guys

I just thought I'd ask about this before I start down the long path of fault finding.

I have an effect made in FS exported as a VST and running in Reaper.

Some of the mouse-operated controls work and some don't respond. For example I can drag the points on the parametric graph and operate the "LED" switches (Ruby) but I can't get a response from the view switching buttons or the Preset manager controls -other than the preset selector.

Now here's the twist: When I play a track through the effect everything works fine, while it's playing. If I pause or stop the track I go back to only a few of the controls working. I tried a couple of commercial effect plugins and I don't get this behaviour.

I had this just once before and to fix it I had to ditch the newer Ruby-based menu selectors (drop boxes) and substitute with older SM ones. Never found out why but on this project I don't have any of those.

If this is a known issue I would welcome advice. Otherwise I'll have to start deleting stuff until everything works then go from there. This is a pain because it means repeatedly exporting new VSTs and then testing in Reaper.

I should add of course that everything is fine in the FS edit environment. If I turn off the ASIO output in FS all the controls still operate in FS. Plus, I've played around with ASIO settings in Reaper but the issue is solid and repeatable.

Unless someone can enlighten me I'll post the result here once I've got to the bottom of it.

Cheers

Spogg

[RJHollins]

hmm ...

When first testing ...

Are you inserting your VST on the MASTER trk ?

Do you have an audio trk ? say like on Trk 1

I ask, because I have seen this ...

[tulamide]

Start with Reaper, as it less you can do on that side.

There's an option in the preferences called "Better buggy VST compatability mode". This can sometimes help with really old schematics/modules.

On the Flowstone side, always remember that a lot of prims have been changed or even replaced over the years. Flowstone does its best to work with tem anyway, but there's no guarantee, if the modules are very old.

Another thought: There's the "Is playing" prim. If it happens to be checked somewhere at the top of the chain, you could by accident make a whole chain of functionality disabled while not playing.

[Spogg]

First off, many thanks for your comments.

I slowly deleted everything from my schematic until I was left with just the preset manager and still got the issue.
I made a new module with input to output connected and a preset manager. Still the same issue.
I tried other effects made with FS and found the same issue with them.
I tried quite a few commercial and free effects plugins and got no problems with any of the controls when not in playback.
I found that arming recording allowed the FS plugin's controls to work, as well as playback being active.
I tried the test plugin (attached here) in Sonar 8 and got the same issue, so it's not a Reaper-exclusive issue.
I tried (as per RJ) adding the effect to the Master but still the same problem.
I looked for the buggy vst setting in Reaper but couldn't find it (it used to be there in earlier versions I'm sure), but this happens in Sonar too.

I'm becoming convinced this is a bug in Flowstone's export to VST. I don't see the logical reason for some controls working and others not, unless playback or recording is running.

Before I go ahead and report this could some kind person try to replicate the issue and/or tell me what I'm doing wrong (probably tulamide will get there!)?

I've attached a basic schematic and its dll. When patched into the DAW, and no playback or recording is working, I can operate the knob and select a preset but no file, naming or arrows work on the preset manager. Also I added a Ruby-based menu box which doesn't respond unless playback and recording is running. If you then arm for recording or drag in a sound file and set it to play all the controls in the plugin work, every time. Pause or stop playback and the plugin reverts to only partly responding.

On the one hand this means it's not my nascent mastering tool that's at fault but on the other hand can I really put this out there (or any other plugins) with such an annoying feature ? Most of what I've made before have been instruments and I always had to enable record to to monitor them, so this has not been an issue until now.

Thanks in advance

Spogg

[tulamide]

Spogg,

do you really think that such a game-breaker would have been undiscovered over all the 10 or 15 or however many years that Synthmaker/Flowstone exist?

You might say that this issue could have been introduced with 3.0.8.1 and simply nobody created a VST plugin yet. But luckily I'm here for the rescue. I don't have any of the mentioned behaviours. I started Reaper, created a track (ctrl+t) and selected your vst as plugin. I could work with the file, naming and arrows controls and the menu button worked as well.

This is good, because it means we can track down the issue. I would like to wait for others to test the plugin you provided, but I'm afraid that could take a long time^^

Until nobody confirms having the same issues than you, I consider this being a local issue. If others report it as well, it is an issue related to a certain hardware/software combination, which is harder to detect.

One thing is for sure: You had these issues, you exported the plugin with your version of Flowstone - and I don't have the issues when using your plugin. That means, Flowstone is not the cause per se.

I don't know where we will get to, but we have to start somewhere. So I've attached a plugin. I tried to replicate your schematic, from scratch. I don't own a menu button, so this part is not in it, but the preset manager and the knob. Please test it and report.

[Nubeat7]

no response unless Reaper is playing?

watch the reaper audio settings!! i think the default settings enables to close audio device (which stops also the gui functions for fs vst'S) just unclick this and it should work...

[Spogg]

Hey a BIG thank you to tulamide and Nubeat7

Tulamide confirmed the issue was with my setup. Nubeat caused me to investigate the Reaper settings more.

It wasn't the Close Audio thing, it was:

Options | Preferences | Playback | Run FX when stopped [checkbox]. This is recommended for some VSTi.

I never changed this so the default state was un-checked. When checked, the VST worked properly without playback running

I'm totally delighted that I can continue playing with my toy now. I guess Sonar has the same type of setting but I don't use it.

What does puzzle me however are two things:

(1) Why did all the other FX I tried work correctly with all their controls functional?

(2) Why did some of the controls from FS not function and some did?

Do you think I should mention this setting issue on the website for the "About plugins made with Flowstone" section?
What I'm saying is that this behaviour could be down to Flowstone VST exports, but I don't want to frighten the horses!

Guys, again, many thanks.

Spogg

[Nubeat7]

i think when the fx is unabled it is disconnected with the asiodriver to save cpu, and in FS ruby controls are binded to the audio connection in some way but not the green controls, so if you have green controls inside they should work also when its disconnected with the audiodriver...

i'm not 100% shure about, but i think it was like this

[Spogg]

i think when the fx is unabled it is disconnected with the asiodriver to save cpu, and in FS ruby controls are binded to the audio connection in some way but not the green controls, so if you have green controls inside they should work also when its disconnected with the audiodriver...

i'm not 100% shure about, but i think it was like this

Interesting... but I ran a quick test and check, and the knob in my test dll is Ruby-based but it works. I tried an old SM drop box menu (green only) and that worked while the Ruby one didn't. So I'm not convinced the "Ruby-only-when-ASIO-is-running" is a valid rule for all controls.

Still puzzled about this.

Cheers

Spogg

[RJHollins]

i think when the fx is unabled it is disconnected with the asiodriver to save cpu, and in FS ruby controls are binded to the audio connection in some way but not the green controls, so if you have green controls inside they should work also when its disconnected with the audiodriver...

i'm not 100% shure about, but i think it was like this

I think NuBeat is correct with this ...

I had this same issue, and it started with using RUBY, and the new tools added to the toolbox.

Things like Pull-Down SELECTORS, TIMERS would not operate if REAPER was not playing. [All this was talked in an old SM thread I started].

anyway ... Yes, the GREEN controls worked regardless. I had begin rewriting all my projects ... then NuBeat identified the Reaper settings issue ... life was good. Unfortunately, back then, I had burned out my beta-tester. I should check back with him and see if he has recovered.

Spogg ... sorry I couldn't recall that setting earlier for you, but NuBeat comes to the rescue