Midi Control Knobs

[Drnkhobo]

Hey all,

I have been playing around with TekToog's midi knobs (http://synthmaker.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=10207) and I have a problem

So I just have ONE knob in a vst that is linked to a midi in primitive

mcc.png (19.98 KiB) Viewed 24584 times

When I right-click and learn, move a pot on my traktorX1, it links. . . . yay, woohoo! But wait, it only works in FS????


As soon as I export as VST and load into FLStudio( only used for testing ) I do the same, right-click . . . ect.
But now it doesnt link to my knob??? I can see the midi in is going mad in FL when I move the pot, So it is receiving midi from my X1 but just not in my VST. I can work around this in FL by linking my controller to the knob via the left pane\Edit Effects Section (dunno if anyone knows what I mean)

The point is right-click-to-learn works in FS but not in VST???
Anyone know why this might be?
Im probably missing something simple but I AM STUMPED

Someone with more experience please reply!

EDIT: Maybe its better to make my own midi learn-able knob????

[trogluddite]

Host problems like this are very annoying - although the VST standard is open to use, not all hosts implement all of VST's capabilities.
First thing, I have never used FL, so what ways of routing MIDI are in there, I have no idea - but I assume that you have other plugins that allow direct MIDI control without using the FL based control linking? There are some hosts that simply don't allow regular MIDI linking, often because it might lead to clashes with built in control linking features.

The commonest problem with this kind of thing is that some sequencers try to be too clever, and 'help out' in awkward ways - they read the number of inputs and outputs and try to 'optimise' everything by guessing what kind of plugin it is. One solution that often works is to add a couple of dummy audio outputs to the exported module (blue mono stream ones). Some hosts don't like to see plugins with no audio I/O, and this little trick can often fool them into seeing the plugin as a VST synth rather than a pure MIDI plugin.
It also depends on how the export is done. The module that you export should not have any ASIO, DS or MIDI 'external' components inside it at all, they should all be outside the export module connected to the module by only blue mono streams or MIDI connectors. If you have drivers inside the schematic it causes the plugin and host to fight over them, and that is never good!

It's a good idea to get a second host for testing situations like this - VSThost is a handy free one, but the free demo's of other software usually have enough features available to check out whether a plugin works or not. It doesn't have to be something that you actually like - just something to boot up for a "second opinion". I'd also recommend Reaper (cheap, and has a free demo) - it has been by far the most stable sequencer I've used, very flexible routing, per channel CPU measurement, and the VST compatibility seems excellent even with very old plugins - a good test-bed even if it doesn't suit your music making style.

[Drnkhobo]

Hey Trog,

I have installed and tested Reaper, used it before but im a Cubase man at heart.
I must say it has better VST functions, a little more in depth than cubase (that I
can figure anyway).

So I tested again and although I can link the CC thru reaper :

open plug window, Param/FXParameter List/Learn . . . .


It still wont work for the knobs own "Right Click to learn"


I dont get it, surely there is more than just hoping it all works?

[trogluddite]

Time to upload your schematic I think - there are many things that can be ruled out (or spotted) in just a few minutes if we have the file to play with.

[trogluddite]

Well, it seems you are not alone.
I have just made a couple of schematics using the new Ruby MIDI features, and I'm getting some exports where the MIDI output just doesn't work. It is only when I have the plugin output connected directly to a Ruby source - the output works if there are green components in between the two. Nothing within the plugin itself, or the FS3 environment seems affectes, just the MIDI link to the host.
I've done an official report, but it would be nice to see this tested on a few other systems - just Reaper on WinXP so far. I can reproduce it at will - Ruby => MIDI Out = broken, Ruby => MIDI Split => MIDI Event => MIDI Out = Working.
Here's a couple of my test rigs...

MIDI Problem.fsm

(1.76 KiB) Downloaded 1006 times

[stw]

Well, it seems you are not alone.
I have just made a couple of schematics using the new Ruby MIDI features, and I'm getting some exports where the MIDI output just doesn't work. It is only when I have the plugin output connected directly to a Ruby source - the output works if there are green components in between the two. Nothing within the plugin itself, or the FS3 environment seems affectes, just the MIDI link to the host.
I've done an official report, but it would be nice to see this tested on a few other systems - just Reaper on WinXP so far. I can reproduce it at will - Ruby => MIDI Out = broken, Ruby => MIDI Split => MIDI Event => MIDI Out = Working.
Here's a couple of my test rigs...

MIDI Problem.fsm

You don't need to export a VST. Just connect a text prim to the midi out and you can see that nothing is send with direct ruby linking. So i'd say the bug is confirmed from my side

[Tronic]

quote from this post

Sorry Tronic, with everything else we want to do it's not likely to be top of the list I'm afraid.
For sysex in VST do you want to send sysex to the host or external synths?

hope that a bug, bring it to top the list.
in the development of vst, the midi is not something negligible.

[trogluddite]

Just connect a text prim to the midi out and you can see that nothing is send with direct ruby linking

The direct MIDI to Text doesn't seem to work at all any more. But MIDI is getting sent - I have several MIDI schematics that I brought over from SM, and they do all work properly - correct screen ReDraws etc. from incoming and outgoing MIDI events.
So, I think the String box trick may be a different issue - possibly that feature has had to be removed in order for MIDI messages to be 'Ruby'ised"

Here's my MIDI analyser module for anyone who wants to do a bit of testing (improved Ruby version coming soon)...

MIDI Analyser.fsm

(7.12 KiB) Downloaded 1051 times

FYI)
The dev's have responded to my bug report, and say that they already have a good idea where to look for the cause of the bug. So hopefully this will get fixed pretty quickly in a maintenance release. In the meantime, the back to back 'MIDI Splitter'/'MIDI Event', used in the .fsm I posted, seems to work reliably as a workaround - and easy enough to remove later when this gets fixed.

[stw]

Just connect a text prim to the midi out and you can see that nothing is send with direct ruby linking

The direct MIDI to Text doesn't seem to work at all any more.

Works here with your project (on the green detour module)!

[trogluddite]

Works here with your project (on the green detour module)!

Aha, yes you're right.
It is the same as with the MIDI output - it only works if there is a green section in the chain of MIDI modules, but not when all links are pure MIDI or Ruby values.
Very weirdly, this is just like when SM2.0 came out - the first release had a problem where the new trigger system and MIDI got their threads tied in a knot, leading to false 'feedback loops' being highlighted - and this looks to be just the same kind of issue, as 'green' and Ruby are presumably on different threads so that their event systems can be independent.
They got it fixed really quickly last time - so hopefully, they'll be able to repeat that performance and get it sorted nice and fast.