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Bedini 3D Audio hardware was recreated with synthmaker??

DSP related issues, mathematics, processing and techniques

Re: Bedini 3D Audio hardware was recreated with synthmaker??

Postby Spogg » Thu Sep 29, 2016 3:22 pm

Me again!

I spent a few hours looking into what I could find out about the Bedini “FIRST B.A.S.E.” box and combined this with the scant information on his website regarding his use of Synthmaker.

It seems there were various versions of the hardware with different in/out connector types and knob labels etc. I read reviews and analyses (some not very complementary) and hopefully distilled the essential common ground.

With this information (no circuits for the B.A.S.E and it’s very different to his US patent diagram) I came up with a module which seems to fit the bill and can make subtle or huge differences to a stereo source, depending on content of course.

Moreover I only used the stock prims for the signal processing so no delays or filters anywhere as he said he’d achieved the result by this limited means.

The download has a short song in the player but this makes it about 26 MB. See what you think and a bit of feedback would be lovely!

Cheers

Spogg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/v31tu6yzi24hu ... 0.zip?dl=0
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Re: Bedini 3D Audio hardware was recreated with synthmaker??

Postby mayo » Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:44 pm

Thanks Spogg, big respect for your work and sharing it here so many people and students can learn secrets of DSP

All connections / projects sounded perfect, soon I will compare it with real bedini base I hope.

Anyway it sound little bit different (but still very good) than original bedini samples that I listened i think. (not only at beinis web but other sources)

Interesting is that John Bedini made Stereo from Mono record of this song http://www.johnbedini.net/john34/five-k.mp3

http://www.johnbedini.net/john34/test.html

So Im affraid that he still use different technique, because your last one example, while it sounds fantastic cannot create huge stereo from this song like Bedinis synthmaker project. On the other hand Im not sure if it is true that he used just 3 basic synthmaker components, maybe that is trick how to entangle competitors or people who want to recreate it digitally :-D :-D
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Re: Bedini 3D Audio hardware was recreated with synthmaker??

Postby mayo » Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:12 pm

this is close to online version by bedini

Quilcom MSP Mono to stereo using all pass phase shift

but it is louder always in one speaker L or Right, maybe it can be fixed

thanks a lot :-)
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Re: Bedini 3D Audio hardware was recreated with synthmaker??

Postby Spogg » Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:12 am

So Im affraid that he still use different technique, because your last one example, while it sounds fantastic cannot create huge stereo from this song like Bedinis synthmaker project. On the other hand Im not sure if it is true that he used just 3 basic synthmaker components, maybe that is trick how to entangle competitors or people who want to recreate it digitally


I'm afraid I think this is the case. I can actually hear a slight delay between left and right channels and there's no way to do this with just "OP-AMPs". It may be that he took a stereo recording, made it mono for the first play and then back to original stereo to demonstrate his "achievement".

To be honest I think he's a clever business guy but also a bit of a scammer. For example have you looked at his CD clarifier? http://www.bedini.com/clarifier.htm or his free energy stuff? http://johnbedini.net/ What nonsense!

EDIT see the bottom post on this page I just found...
http://www.energyscienceforum.com/showthread.php?t=137


Quilcom MSP Mono to stereo using all pass phase shift
but it is louder always in one speaker L or Right, maybe it can be fixed


I re-checked this and the levels are fine but what you are hearing is a psycho-acoustic phenomenon I would say. This technique is rather limited and like most processors it's about finding the sweet spot for whatever source material you have. If you adjust the Fc and the width you will hear the sound apparently pan around but it's not the average level that's changing. However, it may be worth me including a balance control on the final module so the effect can be offset.

Thank you so much for the feedback; always very valuable to me :D

Cheers

Spogg
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Re: Bedini 3D Audio hardware was recreated with synthmaker??

Postby Spogg » Fri Sep 30, 2016 5:34 pm

Here's 3 more I've been developing today. I'm rather pleased with one of them!
See what you think...

No wav players this time to keep the file size down.

Cheers

Spogg
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3 more in dev 30.9.16.zip
(389.82 KiB) Downloaded 399 times
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Re: Bedini 3D Audio hardware was recreated with synthmaker??

Postby Spogg » Sun Oct 02, 2016 12:51 pm

I found a very detailed review of the Bedini B.A.S.E. here:

https://www.rapmag.com/a/1990s/42-90/ju ... ystems-inc

There is one discrepancy in the description, namely whether the processing is on the stereo only or the mono only. However, using the other information, I'm convinced it's on the stereo information only. So I came up with a revised schematic; the SECOND B.A.S.E.
This one can be summed to mono successfully and seems to fit all the requirements. It would be very easy to adapt it to have a "center sidechain" but I haven't bothered.
I've been unable to hear any A/B comparisons with/without the B.A.S.E. in the signal path so mayo, you'll have to tell me how similar it sounds.
One point I found, in several forums, is that it never did turn mono into spacial stereo. It only operates on a stereo source.
I auditioned all-pass and various hi-pass filters to provide balanced phase-shift and the solution in this schematic sounds the best to my ears; a sigle pole optimised hi-pass by Martin Vicanek.

Please let me know how this compares to the original because I'm working blind (deaf :lol: ).

Cheers

Spogg
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Quilcom MSP Stereo SECOND BASE dev 3.fsm
(344.38 KiB) Downloaded 402 times
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Re: Bedini 3D Audio hardware was recreated with synthmaker??

Postby Spogg » Mon Oct 03, 2016 12:07 pm

RJHollins wrote:If you want to check something quite interesting ...

Look at Merging Technologies, 'Voicode'.

The description:
... interpolate a stereo position for multiple sounds in a mono recording and adjust the correlation between them in real-time.


They have audio examples posted. Very interesting.


Interesting RJ...

I listened carefully on speakers and headphones and I'm not impressed (sadly). They claim the stereo image localisation is static but that's not what I heard. The organ "pipes" locations varied kinda randomly, depending on pitch, and the old vocal recording was still mono but with some added ambience. What would have impressed me is if we had the lady and gentleman speaking together in mono and the processing took them apart to left and right with distinctive and stable locations. Now that would require some very clever and intelligent software.

I suspect there is comb filtering or bandpass filtering to produce stereo shuffling with some ambience added via a delay system. The microphone type and room size produce a very small subtle effect on the ambience created.
Overall the result does sound "wider" and not unpleasant, but I think that here, once more, we have sales hype rather than anything new.

Thanks for sharing this RJ.

Cheers

Spogg
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Re: Bedini 3D Audio hardware was recreated with synthmaker??

Postby Spogg » Mon Oct 03, 2016 3:07 pm

This one uses half-octave banks of bandpass filters designed by Martin Vicanek (originally for my Quilcom Bluesky vocoder) to convert mono to stereo using shuffling. This method creates the left and right channels by having slightly different centre frequencies between left and right. This produces fewer artefacts than using comb filtering so has a more natural sound, when both channels are heard.
In addition I provided an ambience section using cross-delay and antiphase mixing.

Please give it a go and let me know...

Cheers

Spogg
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Quilcom MSP Bandpass shuffler dev4.fsm
(568.89 KiB) Downloaded 383 times
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Re: Bedini 3D Audio hardware was recreated with synthmaker??

Postby RJHollins » Mon Oct 03, 2016 5:36 pm

Spogg wrote:
RJHollins wrote:If you want to check something quite interesting ...

Look at Merging Technologies, 'Voicode'.

The description:
... interpolate a stereo position for multiple sounds in a mono recording and adjust the correlation between them in real-time.


They have audio examples posted. Very interesting.


Interesting RJ...

I listened carefully on speakers and headphones and I'm not impressed (sadly). They claim the stereo image localisation is static but that's not what I heard. The organ "pipes" locations varied kinda randomly, depending on pitch, and the old vocal recording was still mono but with some added ambience. What would have impressed me is if we had the lady and gentleman speaking together in mono and the processing took them apart to left and right with distinctive and stable locations. Now that would require some very clever and intelligent software.

I suspect there is comb filtering or bandpass filtering to produce stereo shuffling with some ambience added via a delay system. The microphone type and room size produce a very small subtle effect on the ambience created.
Overall the result does sound "wider" and not unpleasant, but I think that here, once more, we have sales hype rather than anything new.

Thanks for sharing this RJ.

Cheers

Spogg

Hi Spogg,

Are you sure you listened to the processed audio demos ??

The 1st parts are in MONO, the later is processed.

The entrance of the lady is heard coming from the right side. The gentleman was centered because He was in the center. Having them on left and right would not be correct.

Granted, when I've needed to enhance [old mono recordings for Restoration/Re-Mastering], I've sometimes used VoiCode. The settings I've used have to be carefully chosen. I'm not wanting an 'Effect' ... but a 'stereo enhancement'.

I'm all for development that could do this even better ... recreate a TRUE stereo image for a Mono source.
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Re: Bedini 3D Audio hardware was recreated with synthmaker??

Postby DigiTonix » Tue Oct 04, 2016 12:22 pm

Hi guys!...
I started doing UI plugin for MSP,
I want to make krkativnuyu graphics vintage design, a long time I picked the color, but the result did not impress me, I plan to continue to create UI and will seek the best, until you do a superb view!
Here is what I came to do last night ...
DL Skin:
MSP GUI.fsm
(265.95 KiB) Downloaded 398 times

MSP-UI Style.png
MSP-UI Style.png (92.51 KiB) Viewed 14018 times


I love this screen, and white tones, but do you like it?
Or do you want to see the slim design?
Creative Technology for Bold Player's!
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